The List Doctor Has Arrived

Every Monday I will be taking a list submission from a random person and doing a total review of their list and posting it to The Brown Magic. Today I did a list review for Devin and his Daemons/DG list.

His core concepts can be seen from his initial email to me below, and then my responses and rewritten list can be seen there as well.

To submit a list to the list doctor simply email your list to comesabrown@gmail.com. If you have any model limitations, or a specific format you want to build for (ITC, Nova, ETC, Adepticon etc…) please specify that as well.  I’ll do my best to keep your core concepts the same and find a list that works for you.

If you want to ensure your list gets this kind of in depth analysis, (perhaps for a big upcoming tournament) or randomly submitting to the list lottery isn’t for you please email me at comesabrown@gmail.com. I will be providing this premium list advice service for $3.00 per list. Not only will paying the small fee guarantee that you receive the high quality list advice you’re looking for, but it will also be done privately. That way you can keep all the secret tech I give you a secret!

So without further ado, here is the kind of premium list advice you can expect when submitting to the list doctor!

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Devin’s initial email:

Hey Im curious to see what you think of a list im tampering with. I had a good showing in WetCoast with PBC’s but i wanna ditch them and shake things up. Basically, blood letter bomb w/ blood banners + DG leviathans that can hide behind a terrain piece and move (no -1 penalty from DG) out to role over some heavy dmg that wont be engaged by blood letter bombs or help tear a hole so the BL can charge on through and touch their whole army. Also its been pointed out Leviathans can double tap now with Fire Frenzy! Yay!

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos – Daemons) [34 PL, 606pts] ++
Chaos Allegiance: Chaos Khorne

+ HQ [6 PL, 112pts] +
Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]
Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]

+ Troops [28 PL, 494pts] +
Bloodletters [12 PL, 225pts]: 29x Bloodletter [203pts], Bloodreaper [7pts], Daemonic Icon [15pts]
Bloodletters [8 PL, 140pts]: 19x Bloodletter [133pts], Bloodreaper [7pts]
Bloodletters [8 PL, 129pts]: 16x Bloodletter [112pts], Bloodreaper [7pts], Instrument of Chaos [10pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos – Daemons) [17 PL, 302pts] ++

+ HQ [8 PL, 140pts] +
Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Miasma of Pestilence
Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]: Shrivelling Pox

+ Troops [9 PL, 162pts] +
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms [54pts]
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms [54pts]
Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms [54pts]

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos – Death Guard) [59 PL, 1090pts] ++

+ HQ [12 PL, 194pts] +
Chaos Lord [5 PL, 74pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword
Necrosius the Undying [7 PL, 120pts]

+ Troops [15 PL, 238pts] +
Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun [36pts]
Cultist Champion [4pts]: Autogun
Poxwalkers [6 PL, 108pts]: 18x Poxwalker [108pts]
Poxwalkers [6 PL, 90pts]: 15x Poxwalker [90pts]

+ Heavy Support [32 PL, 658pts] +
Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 329pts]: Butcher cannon array [60pts], Butcher cannon array [60pts], 2x Hellflamer [34pts]
Hellforged Leviathan Dreadnought [16 PL, 329pts]: Butcher cannon array [60pts], Butcher cannon array [60pts], 2x Hellflamer [34pts]

I feel like with the nurglings helping getting you a pocket to deepstrike in it can be fairly competitive. Let me know… I think Leviathans are not as tough as PBC’s but hoping the BL’s will shake enough things up that they can do work.

My Response:

Hey Devin,

It feels to me that you’re going really far out of you way just to get CP.  While CP are good and all that, you need more army to really make use of them. 
Your nurgle detachment doesn’t really need to be a nurgle detachment. It can move to soup really easily, since nothing in there really cares about +1 damage on 6s to wound. Doing that would let you save a bunch on nurgle heralds which are essentially just going to be 70 point smites.
Your DG portion is a bit confusing to me because of the Pox. If you’re trying to do the pox trick to get an enormous unit of ob sec zombies going I’m a big fan of that, but you don’t really have any units to fuel it. You need infantry that will be able to hang out in the back by the pox walkers for that to really be efficient. Having bloodletter bombs coming in on the other side of the table to deep strike and charge nowhere near the pox walkers doesn’t lead to a big pox unit.
As for the Khorne detachment, I don’t really understand why there are 2 bloodletter units walking around, and why the one that clearly deep strike doesn’t have an instrument. That could be fixed really easily though. I definitely don’t hate the rerolls to charge, but again I think you’d be better off saving the 112 on khorne heralds and souping that detachment up as well. The khorne heralds being able to keep up for +1s aura seems more like a pipe dream than a realistic tactic, so they’re really just there for the rerolls which is meh, especially when you consider a Tz herald casting Gaze of Fate to make up for it.
Here’s a rewritten version of the list for you. Let me know what you think!
Daemon Batallion
Herald of Tz- 78 
Karanak- 70 (He’s just a lot of good value for 70 points, but this could be another tz herald as well)
19 Bloodletters- Instrument, Icon 158
3 Nurglings 54
3 Nurglings 54
30 Pink Horrors 210
Death Guard Batallion
Typhus 175
Necrosius 120
19 Pox Walkers 114
10 Pox Walkers 60
10 Pox Walkers 60
Leviathin Dread- Butcher cannons, flamers 329
Leviathin Dread- Butcher cannons, flamers 329
1811, 189 reinforcement points.
You should spend the 189 reinforcement points on splitting the 30 pinks down. The synergy there is whenever a pink dies you get 2 blue horrors and a pox walker, so you lose 1 model to gain 3. The horrors will want to be somewhat back and by the pox walkers naturally (unlike the bloodletters who want to be running head first at the other guy and not tied to the pox). Also the horrors are way less vulnerable to going second and getting blown up because you can use the strat to give all 30 a 3++.  The horrors obviously shoot a ton, pumping out 90 s4 shots with +1 to wound from the herald.  The bloodletters deep strike in just like before, but you’re not as deeply invested in them working as before. Honestly the bloodletter bomb is really easy to defend against with screening so I wouldn’t ever recommend building an entire strategy around it. While you have lost 3 command points, you effectively gained some in the form of not having so many bloodletter bombs eating up all your CP. You have also reduced your drop count from 17 to 13, which can be really helpful to go first to get your pox shenanigans working as well getting your bloodletter bomb to stick hard.
Let me know what you think of the changes I suggested, and keep me updated on how your future games go. Best of luck!

8 Comments on “The List Doctor Has Arrived

  1. I’ve seen 19 bloodletters quite a bit in lists lately. Why 19? I feel inclined to take more for the bonus to hit.

    • In ITC format 20 man units give up an additional point for reaper (one of their secondaries). Additionally, taking 20 just for the hit bonus probably won’t work since you are very likely to lose 1 to overwatch. If you’re going to go for the hit bonus and a proper bomb I’d recommend going all 30 instead of trying to get by with 20-22.

      • Fair enough. I always figured 30 or nothing. I would have said just get horrors, but they are there. 19 bloodletters can still do work without support, though and if nothing else can tie stuff up.

  2. So leviathans can fire frenzy? I thought GW said no way José on that.

    • To be completely honest, I’m not 100% sure on the legality of that and just took Devin for his word on it. I don’t think that makes or breaks the list personally, since Fire Frenzy would often have to go into some useless screen, but it’s certainly worth looking into.

      • The new thousand sons codex have the Hellbrute word in bold now meaning all hellbrute models and not just the hellbrute itself. Unless it gets FAQ’d it is no different than DG FAQ rewording Hellbrute to bold for Inexorable Advance

      • Leviathans cannot use Fire Frenzy, unfortunately – the Thousand Sons FAQ changed their version of the Stratagem to no longer affect the keyword so it’s clear that this was the intent. Unfortunately – double firing Butcher Array or Grav Flux Leviathans would be great fun.

  3. Only the Helbrute choice in the CSM/DG etc book can double shot. The wording is not bolded in the Stratagem – so it only applies to the name of the unit. If it was bolded it would be a keyword and thus would work with the other ones. As is you can’t double shoot with Contemptors.

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